November 13th, 2018
DJ: Theoretically, if I were to write one last PAYDAY fic, is there a particular subject that you’d hope it’d be about?
Ray: I really love character interactions. Basically anything Bain-focused is going to be a hit with me especially since there’s not a lot of fics about him, more ones where he makes a brief cameo and dips out. But I understand why Bain fics are hard haha. Anything where two characters are interacting and trying to further their own motivations is going to be enjoyable for me. Bonus points if it features a well-written Bonnie, Bain, Houston, or Dallas. Since they don’t get a lot of fic love.
DJ: I’ll bear that in mind. For a while now, a thing I had planned to do was write one last clowntown fic to drop on the AO3 crowd, with the ulterior motive of plugging my update in the end notes. So I am asking a few invested people what they’d like to see. Personally, I’m a big fan of conflicting motivations too. It’s part of what made Houston such a compelling character to write for, since he’s built to be pretty averse to most of how PAYDAY worked up until his addition. I’d be tempted to write Bain/Dentist confrontation (I had always meant to, in fact), but that would mean I’d have to really invest the time into figuring out the nuances of this ending they wrote so I know I have all the facts straight, and I don’t really want to do that.
Ray: Yeah, I totally get it. I don’t understand the ending fully myself, and it’s not something I want to dedicate brainspace to, haha.
Ray: Maybe a Bain/Dentist prequel could work? Something that takes place between Hoxton Breakout and the Locke Heists? So you don’t have to bother with the details of whatever the White House Heist introduced, lmao. I haven’t looked at the fics in a while but something with Locke/Bain could also be interesting, though if you tapped out before then I would totally understand, haha. My guess would be that Locke isn’t that popular of a subject either lol
DJ: I dropped out sometime between Scarface and h3h3.
Ray: Yeah, same.
DJ: Difficulty with these is that the new bullshit does inform the old to a degree. Like, with Bain, the fact that he went from your buddy in the chair to King Fuck of Crime Mountain between clowns 1 and 2 meant he was keeping a lot from the crew, and by extension the player. So you’d have to figure what he reasonably might have known about the Dentist’s Illuminati plot back then but wasn’t telling you. I can’t say for sure, but I’d guess that Locke is probably informed a bit that way too.
I could do various HoxOut’s, since that does hit all the bases and would probably appeal to a lot of other people’s various interests. I think that early on, it could be assumed that while the Dentist was a suspicious character, Bain didn’t know a lot about him at that point.
DJ: Alternatively, I could also just do a decent number of Cash Bonii ’cause you’re right, Locke does sound interesting and if I don’t scratch too deep, that’d be a nice place to visit.
Ray: I think Locke is an interesting character, so maybe! My guess is that you’ll get more hits with Hox stuff, but it’s entirely up to you. There are the fun PAYDAY characters and then there are the fan-favs, haha.
DJ: Oh, I hadn’t thought about that; which character would actually draw the hits. Here, I was just blissfully imagining people being excited to read it ’cause, holy shit, it’s me. I mean, I know that sounds egotistical, but I am frequently surprised by how ! people get when I comment on their fic in there so not entirely unfounded. It’s also the only thing anyone has ever asked me to return to doing. But playing to the general public *cough*wolfhoxcrowd*cough* would be a more mercenary way to go. Plus, HoxOut is super emotional. And who doesn’t like ~emotions~.
Ray: As long as you have a paragraph in there about Bain feelings i’m a happy man
DJ: I could probably do better than that. Shit would be a roller coaster for him. ‘Cause you know he already isn’t keen on the plan to begin with, and then they completely deviate.
Ray: Love me some extremely complex Bain/Dallas emotions. Like we’re friends and I love you man but sometimes… yknow, it’s tough when you’re running a business.
DJ: RITE? I actually want to incorporate that more into my game. Especially since I don’t plan to have contractors. Like, you get money, but in addition to buying weapons, you also have to front a share to even do the job at all, since no one is paying you.
Ray: Dallas being an emotional disaster but still trying to pretend he can maintain the proper distance is my favorite, and I credit you with making me realize that with your one Dallas drabble where he’s planning on getting Hox back. YEAH! I would love to see more of the human side of the heisters.
DJ: Like, I always had this idea that, in the safehouse, everyone living there on the regular had to pay a fee that covers food and toilet paper and and and. And Chains is in charge of organizing that shit. Quartermaster Chains. So there’ll be little Cash Bonii type things about stuff like that. ‘Cause, like, I find that a lot of people enjoy knowing that kind of minutiae stuff about how one’s characters live, even if it’s not directly relevant to the story, so I’m happy to provide that kinda stuff.
Dallas during HoxOut would be great because 1. you know he feels way guilty about Hoxton getting arrested and he’s finally making that right, but 2. because Dallas is so good at people, he also knows that it’s a thing you can’t ever REALLY make right. Hoxton’s gonna be pretty fucked up from that, maybe such that he’ll never unfuck himself. Plus, he’s still gotta manage all the other usual shit. Wolf gettan excited and losing the plot and shit. Not to mention just the usual problems arising. He’s great to write because he has to mentally keep track of way more stuff than the others.
Like, I really think he probably would have felt pretty guilty with himself over the whole impromptu FBI raid, because if he were more disciplined like he usually is, he would never have allowed it. But he got emotional over having Hoxton back and it could’ve gone way worse. Like, he gets back to the safehouse and now that’s he’s come down from the adrenaline, he remembers that Wolf and Houston both got shot and he’s responsible for all these guys and he didn’t do right by them in okaying the FBI raid. And it’s even worse because Houston’s giving him shit for it. Like, it’d be one thing if he could just be guilty about it on his own ’cause it doesn’t hurt how the others feel about him, doesn’t undermine his leadership. Chains and Wolf largely didn’t blame him for Hoxton getting arrested. But Houston be roasting him live and in person about this so he knows that Houston knows he fucked up.
Ray: Oh man I’m excited but not emotionally prepared
DJ: GLAD TO HEAR IT. LOOKING FORWARD TO EMOTIONAL DEVASTATION. Well, actually, this is HoxOut. Not HoxIn. If I really wanted to demolish you, I’d write HoxIn.
Ray: YEAH, yep. You have to do the megafic where you just destroy John Wick and h3h3. They never existed.
DJ: I’ve softened on Wick over the years. He’s the feller’s favorite and, he can conceivably exist in New York where he belongs, out of my way. But for the most part, I just don’t acknowledge promo characters as existing to begin with. No Jacket, no h3h3, no Jimmy, Point Break guy, Scarface, Ethan, or Hila. Rust is on thin ice.
Ray: Rust is the most PAYDAY-ish since Sokol at least.
DJ: Yeah, but that’s not saying much. No, I would acknowledge him if I were writing that far into the story, but I don’t think he contributes much. At least Sokol canonically did something I could work with. All Rust had was “betrayed old gang” which just makes him harder to justify.